Issuing payment pointers

Hi, I am new to Web Monetization but I believe it’s the future.

However, the barrier to entry for some, especially content creators in Africa, is super high.

I have a use case specifically targetted to African youth and youth in developing countries.

Specifically, I want to be able to allow them to generate payment pointers which will they will use to get paid for content they create.

I have looked at many docs and it appears Coil owns the space and the barrier to entry for newcomers or random Devs like me is very high.

I want to be able to:

  • Have them do KYC and all in their local accepted means :white_check_mark:
  • Have XRP wallets for users on my platform :white_check_mark:
  • Give them the option to generate a payment pointer linked to their account :warning:
  • Enable them to withdraw/transfer XRP to/from their local currency :white_check_mark:

I have some experience with Blockchain and stuff and should be able to understand resources and technical stuff if there are links or guides you can refer me to, please.

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You might benefit from looking at https://gatehub.net/ for an XRP wallet solution and talking to https://uphold.com for the KYC piece. Uphold seems to also facilitate trading to some local currencies (don’t think they do African currencies).

The Coil Wordpress plugin offers a field for adding payment pointers for individual users. Maybe you could build your site on Wordpress and use a plug in like WP User Frontend to allow content creators to create accounts and upload their own content, and build a way for it to generate payment pointers for them.

I’m really curious about what you have in mind. I’m also recruiting content creators for my project which has the goal to increase the freedom of artists worldwide to pursue their creative vision. We’d be happy to look at featuring your project on our site.

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Thanks for sharing this @sal.

I use Gatehub and Uphold for personal and existing projects that require only the use of a pre-existing payment pointer. For both of them, I didn’t see any feature for creating a Payment pointers via the API. I guess it’s because they need to comply with KYC regulations and that can’t be done via an API

Also, I use the Coil WordPress plugin. It will not work for my use case as I want to be able to tie a user’s payment pointer to the content they created. Just like http://dev.to/ does. I actually created a React package to make this possible for React apps. There are other packages that do the same.

"Build a way for it to generate payment pointers for them" without Uphold, Gatehub or Stronghold is the difficult part. That’s what I need to figure out but I don’t see any documentation to make that happen. If I can do this, then I just need to do KYC in local context, generate an XRP address and ILP for users and then tie their ILP to their content. They get paid for views. And then they can convert earned XRP to local currency which is deposited into their local accounts, when ever they request it.

Questions about your project:

  • Do the content creators get paid when their content is being viewed?
  • Do they have to go on Uphold, Gatehub or Stronghold to get a payment pointer?

The project I have in mind is a content discovery and creation platform targeted towards Africa because many of the existing wallets like Uphold do not support local currencies but I understand many of the KYC regulations in the major African countries and I am looking to build something that complies with regulations and opens up the door for more African creators.

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Yes, definitely! It will be great to be featured once we figure out all the details and have something to share.

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Contributors to my project are paid per word or per hour (fiat or crypto). Our Coil revenue is too low to look at compensation based on views, but I like the basic idea. We’re more like an online magazine right now and our goal is to launch an arts crowdfunding platform and paid subscriptions. Subscription revenue will seed the arts crowdfunding campaigns. Our idea is a self-reinforcing media project, not a publishing platform.

However! we want to add a section to the site that features reviews of crowdfunding platforms and other sites. That section might feature user generated content (reviews). We also want to add a community/forum section to the site (something like the one we’re on right now :call_me_hand:). Seamless UX across these different sections of the site is where I’m having trouble in the planning stages. We’re also thinking about creating and distributing our own goodwill crypto token / virtual currency. This would be given out to incentivize community members to contribute and interact, and used to back crowdfunding campaigns and make purchases. Random thought: I realize that you’re interested in paying your content creators in cash, but maybe you could enter a partnership with a local retailer and somehow use their store credit / gift card system? What I mean is, your company uses your platform’s cash revenue to buy store credit and redistributes those automatically to your content creators. You could build your content team out in the region you have the best partnership. BTW do you have boots on the ground over there?

Sorry if I’m hijacking your thread at this point… An open publishing platform that pays content contributors based on views is great for popular contributors but tough for unpopular ones. It’s not hard to imagine the top 10% of creators earning 90%+ of the revenue. Maybe that’s fair, but my feeling is this is a symptom of systematic inequity. Low performing creators still forge genuine or deep connections with new readers/viewers but don’t tend to benefit.

Take Facebook as an example. Say a creator builds a following. It’s great for Facebook who barely does anything for that creator but leverages those connections to build their brand and ad revenue. What happen next when that creator wants to hype an upcoming release and so seeks to expand their reach on the platform? Facebook seeks to charge them a lot of money! (They have to pay even to expand their reach within their own network.)

It should be the other way around. The artist should be seeing a check every month from Facebook. And I know this is part of the problem we’re all seeking to address here. I’m just pointing out how inequities might creep up whether or not there’s a huge company dependent on ad revenue hoarding financial resources, and why I’m inclined to think maybe everyone creating content via a monetized platform deserves some sort of guaranteed minimum based on the platform’s overall revenue.

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I understand it now. So, you generate revenue from subscription and then partly fund arts crowdfunding campaigns on the website.

In total, you have:

  • arts crowdfunding - in progress
  • user-generated posts - done
  • user-generated reviews - in progress
  • a community forum for discussions in progress

I can imagine how challenging it will be to get good UX with 4 different products that could stand on their own. But I am curious what about:

  • what value the reviews of crowdfunding/other sites provide
  • regarding the token, will this be new crypto or one pegged on existing crypto with the same value? I mean, will you have 1 CPT (CulturePlegdeToken) like XRP or 1 CPT = 0.0001 XRP.

I like the idea of partnering with local retailers to offer credits. We can definitely do something like that. Similarly, in some of the African countries, existing platforms allow payment for power, mobile phone internet, utilities, TV, and many others via an API so we can easily link to those APIs and allow people to redeem their token from our platform to pay for one of the services. This will also work for XRP earned from web monetization.

Regarding having boots on the ground, yes. We do, I founded NaijaHacks and AfricaHacks so we have a large community of people in tech. Some of the NH and AH team members are also on the ground. The idea for the new platform is more on the creative side as my partner is very creative and we are looking to build something targetted at them: art, music, video etc

I haven’t considered the option of paying all contributors: how do you vet and ensure quality? Can anyone join and start getting paid? If someone does a lot of work to put out a good article and probably does more work to promote, share, talk about it, should they not earn more? Are there any articles I can read to understand the upsides and downsides of building platforms like this? I mean, yes, some creators will have the upper hand maybe because they started early but I am curious how paying everyone on the platform a minimum will impact revenues, motivation, and others.

You’ve given me a lot to think about with the Facebook example. I haven’t really thought of it this way. So a creator attracts and keeps people on the FB platform but the only benefit they get is potentially to promote to their audience yet FB uses the audience they brought to the platform to grow its ad revenue and brand without any additional benefit or expansion credit to the creator?!

The idea of a guaranteed minimum is good. Could you share some reading or examples/parallels about this? Will like to learn more.

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Hello @uchi. There could certainly be some opportunities to explore directly with Uphold and Gatehub based on some discussions that I’ve had recently.I cannot however talk for them and their KYC and other processes — but am happy to connect you. Contact via deesATgrantforthewebDOTorg or DM.

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@uchi - serving our fellow Africans is a key goal for the Coil team in Cape Town. We are working on it!

I’d love to keep in touch and give you some early previews of what we’re doing, please get in touch via DM!

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@cyberdees thanks. I will DM you.

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@adrianhopebailie Thanks, this is great to know! I’m looking forward to hearing more. I’ll DM you.

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This is the idea right now. It might take awhile (~9 months) to come to a more specific answer on how it should work.

We aren’t looking at publishing ‘user generated posts’ in the way a blog platform like medium or blogger does. We’re like an online magazine. I work with writers directly to create content specific to our niche. The strategy is to create high quality content relating to the arts crowdfunding space in order to build site authority and bolster the crowdfunding platform. In the future we want to continue to produce in-house content in support of the whole. I’m hoping we’ll be able to forge a lot of new connections with creators and audiences this way and a community section to the site would help strengthen those relationships and helps us plan projects.

The reviews section would also be content generated internally by the team, but I think the door is open there for user generated content. This section would be valuable because it’d drive traffic and build site authority. If people had a question about crowdfunding, they could find an answer here. And so to go this route I need a solution that allows ppl to have a smooth SSO / UX so they can go from leaving a comment on a post, to leaving a review, to funding a crowdfunding campaign, to paying for a subscription.

The token idea comes from Connie Digital: https://danky.art/pages/hue

The main idea so far with the CP token is that it could be used to fund crowdfunding campaigns. This means it will probably require price stability and so should be pegged to the USD or maybe a stable coin. 1 token might be worth a fraction of a penny?

Just thinking out loud. I don’t have examples. It just seems to me there must be a way to compensate large groups of content creators that balances incentives better and is more fair than just going strictly based on traffic / time on site.

You obviously can’t ensure quality if you want a platform that lets anybody post anything (although you have some control over discoverability). You could however find posts that are “better” because they’re popular, or get solid organic traffic, or because an AI says it’s well-crafted, or because it’s discovered by someone on your team, and then single out those content creators to be paid.

You could pool all of your streaming revenue and pay all singled-out contributors a minimum. Take an arbitrary amount, say 50% of your total streaming revenue, and earmark it to be distributed among all of your paid contributors in a contrived way, while the other 50% is used to further incentivize your top contributors and fund your operations.

Something like this: The bulk of your content creators are unpaid but you offer things like prizes/contests, mini-grants, free gifts, honorariums, and/or crypto tokens.

Top content creators are included in a paid program and receive ~50% of your total streaming revenue in the form of 1 share per day per contribution (so long as each contribution/post meets certain minimum criteria --perhaps based on traffic). You have professional editors, marketers, and/or other liaisons work directly with these content creators to help ensure their success. If a content creator quits participating then they’re removed from the paid program after a period of time.

Maybe a writer who blogs every day and whose posts meet the minimum criteria at a rate of 87% is receiving 870 shares per day after 1,000 days. A podcaster who puts out a popular podcast every week would be receiving 142 shares per day after 1,000 days, but since their content keeps people engaged for longer, they on average earn a 3x multiplier and so are earning 428 shares per day.

Top creators are paid additional revenue based on popularity and other factors pertaining to how much value you believe they deliver to the project. In the above example the writer earns double the shares of the podcaster. That would be extremely unfair if the podcast was actually much more popular than the blog. This part of the revenue structure ensures they’re still fairly compensated. Maybe you pay out 25% of streaming revenue directly to content creators? Popular content creators might feel like they could earn more from streaming revenue by going out on their own. But there’s no doubt in my mind that being a part of a community network has value beyond the current bottom line numbers.